1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000
This is Martin Duzzo from the Fine South Investigating Committee on this night of the 18th of April.

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Uh, interviewing, uh, what's your name, your phone name?

3
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,000
My name is Dale F. Spore.

4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000
How'd you spell that last name?

5
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000
S-P-A-U-R, sir.

6
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,000
All right, go ahead, then.

7
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:27,000
Uh, my address, I gather, my home address, and my phone number I'd rather not have recorded.

8
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:33,000
I'm a Deputy Sheriff of Portage County in Van O'Hio.

9
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,000
My shield number is number 15.

10
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:42,000
My education is, uh, only high school.

11
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,000
Special training, uh, police training.

12
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,000
My military service was Air Force.

13
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,000
Air Force what?

14
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,000
I was in the Air Force.

15
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:58,000
My only special training in the Air Force was for air refueling, uh, special training I had.

16
00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,000
And did you fly?

17
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,000
Yes, sir.

18
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:09,000
I was, uh, selected to be a Commander's aide in Africa, so I, uh, was with him quite a bit.

19
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:16,000
Day of April, 1966 at 5.07 a.m.

20
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:24,000
The, uh, locality of observation was at State Route 224,

21
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,000
east of State Route 44.

22
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,000
Four miles, I had it today.

23
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,000
Four miles?

24
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,000
Yes.

25
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,000
And west of 183.

26
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:46,000
I observed this vehicle for approximately 85 minutes on the Federal Communications Log of our Communications Center.

27
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,000
I, uh, don't know the seconds on that.

28
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,000
The weather conditions, uh, was clear.

29
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,000
Uh, it was at dawn, uh, in the morning.

30
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,000
Was it really good?

31
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,000
Visibility was very good, uh, against this time.

32
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000
No fog, any like that?

33
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:07,000
We had no, uh, no fog pockets, uh, no problems with visibility at all.

34
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:15,000
Uh, the position of the moon, uh, I would call it a core moon, would have been due east.

35
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:22,000
Uh, if you were parked on 224th at the same location I was, would have been due east from there.

36
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:35,000
The observation was made of the object, uh, when we first seen it, was coming from the west, south of 224, southwest, to even call it.

37
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:43,000
Uh, it was dawn, and the, uh, moon was visible with one bright spot to its side.

38
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:57,000
I don't know the name of it, uh, I'm not familiar with astronomy or anything, but there was a star or a planet just on the south side of the moon when we were looking east at about the same altitude.

39
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:02,000
If there was a picture on the moon it would have been right out from his nose probably.

40
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,000
You go ahead and tell your story now, from the...

41
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:13,000
Uh, I observed this vehicle come up from a wooded area at a very low altitude.

42
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:19,000
It was, uh, just clearing the treetops at this time.

43
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:28,000
I, uh, observed it, uh, coming up, uh, very bright, it was a very bright object.

44
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:41,000
It was larger than anything I had anticipated, uh, ever seeing, uh, in the air, uh, in this, uh, condition or anything.

45
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:57,000
It, uh, traveled very slowly at, uh, it was only a faint humming area, there was no noise, uh, no traffic on the highway beside us, uh, either to the right or, uh, north or south of us.

46
00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,000
There was no, uh, disturbances in the neighborhood just this, uh, humming noise.

47
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:09,000
Um, I was making a visual observation of the area after stopping to check a car.

48
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,000
I thought to be abandoned.

49
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:24,000
I, uh, told my, uh, partner or my rider at this time, uh, go over and ask that, uh, I ask him if he would look over his shoulder

50
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,000
to see if, uh, if he could see this thing.

51
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:44,000
At this time it was, it was still moving very slowly, coming up, uh, uh, he saw it very clearly, the object or vehicle or whatever you might want to call it, craft or, uh, etc.

52
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:51,000
Uh, came just up the south side of the highway in an easterly direction.

53
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:58,000
It, uh, came to, uh, a pause or a momentarily stop.

54
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:09,000
It then came directly north, right over the two vehicles together, the abandoned car and my police car.

55
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,000
It, uh, hovered.

56
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:23,000
I, uh, it was so bright I, I could say that, uh, it was very close to us, uh, from 52, uh, not more than 100 feet above us.

57
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:30,000
Uh, my first thoughts, uh, I was, uh, very scared.

58
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,000
I, uh, I didn't know, uh, exactly what was happening.

59
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,000
I, I didn't know what to expect.

60
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:43,000
I had the only feeling was to get something between me and whatever this thing was.

61
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:53,000
Uh, the only thing for me to go to or towards was the cruiser, which, uh, when I started, uh, Barney went the other way.

62
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,000
Uh, we got in the car.

63
00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:02,000
Uh, I, uh, was, uh, I sat there for a minute.

64
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:10,000
I, I don't know exactly how long until I, it didn't seem to want to hurt us.

65
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:17,000
I tried to radio it, uh, did not mount function at, uh, the carrier trip very well.

66
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:27,000
I informed the station that, uh, this object, uh, that had been sighted was directly over us.

67
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:39,000
I did not, uh, try to fill them in, uh, or what was happening until I could make sure that my imagination hadn't exploded.

68
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:49,000
I, uh, at this time, after advising them of this object, uh, I gave the message to this factory,

69
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,000
the vehicle moved just to the north side of the road.

70
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,000
It, uh, paused or hesitated momentarily.

71
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:06,000
It, uh, then crossed back over the road almost in the identical spot.

72
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000
Uh, it, uh, over the vehicles.

73
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,000
Right.

74
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,000
And then, uh, you could hear this one, uh, humming noise.

75
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:27,000
It did change, uh, the pitch of it, uh, uh, I don't know how to explain it, uh, it did change tones,

76
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,000
as though it might have gone into a slight higher pitch if you had one of these music things,

77
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:41,000
like when I was in school a long time ago, that they, right, I forgot to name it, uh,

78
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:50,000
but increased its altitude, uh, and moved eastward in an easterly direction at about the same time.

79
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:58,000
It moved about 253, 253 hundred feet just east of us, it hesitated.

80
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:04,000
At this time, Sergeant Schoenfeld came on the radio, wanted to know if we were still observing this object.

81
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,000
I informed him that we were watching him.

82
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,000
He wanted to know if we had a camera.

83
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,000
I told him no.

84
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:19,000
He said that we should try to observe the vehicle, try to pursue it, or stay with it as long as possible,

85
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:28,000
keep it under surveillance, report any findings that we found, anything that we might identify to prove or disprove it,

86
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:37,000
to see if it was a balloon, until he could get some units in the area, a photographer or another unit,

87
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:45,000
or with photographic equipment, or a whole of one of the police departments that this thing might be traveling towards.

88
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,000
We started out behind the vehicle.

89
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:54,000
It made no attempt to leave us immediately or anything.

90
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,000
We went due east on 224.

91
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:04,000
We had to make a south turn on 183 for a distance to pick up 224 again.

92
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:13,000
When making the south turn, the vehicle was directly to our rear window.

93
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:21,000
We went to 224 and 183 again, we turned left, which would put us in an easterly direction.

94
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,000
The vehicle was to our left, it was immediately to our left.

95
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,000
There was no this thing that hesitated again.

96
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,000
I couldn't say that it actually stopped and waited to see where we were going.

97
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,000
It was right there towards you.

98
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,000
But I had a handful of car.

99
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:43,000
The vehicle or this object or whatever it was at this time started at easterly direction again.

100
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:52,000
It was very clear that seemed to maintain the course for approximately three quarters to a mile.

101
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,000
It then came due south.

102
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,000
You mean it moved up the east direction and went south?

103
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,000
It came south.

104
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:07,000
Over top of 224 remained on the south side of 224 to just about the Berlin Reservoir.

105
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,000
At this time it was traveling at 83 miles an hour.

106
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:19,000
It never made any effort, had increased its altitude however to approximately 500 feet.

107
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:31,000
The Berlin Reservoir across the water's edge at about the county line or after I had just passed the county line.

108
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:41,000
The vehicle came back to the north side of 224.

109
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:46,000
Are you sure that the object actually moved in this direction?

110
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,000
I'm sure sir.

111
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000
Was it at Rolls-Rae at this time?

112
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000
Yes sir.

113
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,000
The road is very straight.

114
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,000
There's no curves in this at all.

115
00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:03,000
The only time that we went around any objects was at Deerfield Circle which the road would run right through.

116
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000
There's a circle in the middle so you go around and come right back out on it.

117
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:11,000
There's no sharp angles or anything of this nature.

118
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,000
The vehicle then continued east.

119
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:23,000
It still made no effort to leave us and started increasing its speed.

120
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,000
I'll ask you one question right about here.

121
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000
At what position on the windshield were you able to see the object?

122
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,000
Middle, the lower part or the upper part?

123
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:39,000
When it was on the north side it would be just above the mid part of the windshield.

124
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:51,000
Inside the post with the object viewing it at an angle on the car would have been between the rear view mirror and the post of the windshield.

125
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,000
How far down to the top?

126
00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:03,000
At this time I don't remember if I was bent over observing it or if I was looking from a full setting position.

127
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:10,000
I know that Barney had leaned forward and was watching it from his side of the vehicle.

128
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,000
I couldn't state if I had leaned forward.

129
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000
Would you say that the altitude was low?

130
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,000
Very low sir.

131
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,000
What was your estimate of distance away from you?

132
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:39,000
I would say that my estimate, my distance at this time as we were moving at approximately three quarters the length of the football field at 100 yards to our immediate left or north of 224.

133
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:49,000
Then you also say in my talk last night that it did light up objects and like the crane and things of that nature.

134
00:12:49,000 --> 00:13:00,000
Yes, until it did increase its altitude it seemed to so dislike in a definite space did curtail itself.

135
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:17,000
At this time however I had increased its altitude it was too far away from the edge that we could watch it, see the road driving, see what was happening on the ground at the same time.

136
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:24,000
With the meant we had to either give up observing the vehicle and try to observe what was happening on the ground.

137
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:30,000
At this time the ground wasn't even in my mind.

138
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:36,000
We followed it. It did at one time gain quite a bit of altitude.

139
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:49,000
When we would have been coming into Canfield for its reason for going in I don't know but it did stay in a distinct pattern right beside the highway.

140
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:59,000
Coming into unity when the vehicle had given up part of its altitude again as though it had gone back down where it could look things over.

141
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:05,000
I'm saying this is what it appeared to be doing. I don't know what it was doing.

142
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:19,000
At this time the East Palestine cruiser came in behind us. This was the only cruiser that didn't make connections at this time they could get on the road with us.

143
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:27,000
He in turn fell in behind me. The vehicle at this time was clocking 103 miles an hour.

144
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:35,000
It showed the same there was a deviation of about a half mile between the two speedometers as we were going along.

145
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,000
Where is unity? What road?

146
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000
This is 51.

147
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000
Are you up to 24 now?

148
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:51,000
I'm not sure if this is working or not. I don't remember exactly when we switched routes.

149
00:14:51,000 --> 00:15:08,000
The roads are not familiar with me and a couple of times like when there was obstructions or views I had to have Barney to maintain complete contact while I maneuvered through these bad areas.

150
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:18,000
When we were in unity I knew the town. I didn't know at this time I found it out on my return trip.

151
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:23,000
The East Palestine car came in behind me.

152
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,000
Who was in the East Palestine car?

153
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,000
Lane Houston. He was the patrolman.

154
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,000
Was he by himself?

155
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,000
Yes he was. He was all alone in his car.

156
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,000
He was trying to after he immediately picked up the object.

157
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:47,000
He could observe it very well with us when he seen that this object was there. We were running with it.

158
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:55,000
He tried to call his base station. His dispatcher evidently was a little tired of something.

159
00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:02,000
He couldn't get him to quite understand. He had not been copying the traffic from the units in pursuit.

160
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:13,000
At this time he was trying to get him to... I heard his traffic think it was a Chippewa or a Chippewa State police barracks.

161
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:20,000
He was trying to get on the road that someone might take over this pursuit.

162
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:38,000
I was advised after reaching this point and getting into the Pennsylvania line that as soon as we could get a vehicle or someone to observe it in pursuit of it that we should break off pursuit and return to our own bail ricks.

163
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,000
That's pretty hard to do, isn't it?

164
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,000
That's for chasing it up to far and then to let it go.

165
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:50,000
It didn't seem to mind.

166
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,000
How many cars now were following this object?

167
00:16:53,000 --> 00:17:00,000
This is two of us. This is myself and Wayne Houston is behind us.

168
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:10,000
We got tangled up in Rochester. There's massive bridges or roads and cutoffs.

169
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:17,000
He was trying to direct me when he knew the routes as to which direction we were trying to guess it would go.

170
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:24,000
He told me which route we were going to take. He was steering me telling me to take this ramp or this way or that way.

171
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,000
This was all very high speed. I was depending on his directions to be accurate.

172
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:41,000
As a matter of fact, part of what we did was not very skillful. We didn't use any caution at all.

173
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000
In other words, you were reckless.

174
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,000
Yes, we were.

175
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,000
The thing that I think...

176
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,000
What happened to your Rochester now?

177
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:57,000
I think this is what happened. It shocked me.

178
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:07,000
I didn't say anything. Wayne started a transmission. He did not finish the vehicle.

179
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:13,000
When we were traning through all this spider web of whatever we were going through,

180
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:21,000
we figured at this point we had lost it. There would be no way that we could pick it up.

181
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:31,000
It had changed directions. The vehicle lost altitude and was hovering right over the highway and awaited on us.

182
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,000
What kind of... was there a low altitude at that time?

183
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000
I'd say about a thousand feet.

184
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,000
Just Wayne.

185
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,000
I was in Rochester.

186
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:51,000
When two cruisers, Wayne and myself, got even with it and started moving again.

187
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:58,000
We went right back to the same speed again and right between quite a 103.

188
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000
What must have known your top speed?

189
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:10,000
I don't know if I had driven slower or what it was.

190
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Was it always drawing you into a big smash?

191
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:19,000
It might have done that. I don't know.

192
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:26,000
When we got through Freedom, the name of that town I found out later...

193
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,000
Is that Pennsylvania?

194
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Yes, sir. This is Rochester, Pennsylvania. We went to what was Freedom.

195
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,000
I found out later. Like I said, I don't know it up in that area.

196
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,000
Did you have your siren going and everything going?

197
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,000
Yes, sir. We did.

198
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000
Did you need all that noise?

199
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,000
Only at intersections. Otherwise, I didn't use it at all.

200
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:53,000
There's no reason to raise a lot of hell or to scare everybody to death.

201
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000
What about your light? Did you have your light going?

202
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:02,000
Yes, I did have my red light going for the purpose of maybe someone going to work early in the morning or something.

203
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,000
I had forgotten at this time it was a sunny morning.

204
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,000
So that no one backed out of a driveway into the road or something.

205
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000
Maybe I should have come in.

206
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:20,000
As we were lining through Freedom and Stuff, there was some noise to the road.

207
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,000
I was getting real low on fuel.

208
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:32,000
We came into Conway as we were going through Conway towards Pittsburgh.

209
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,000
There was this other police vehicle sitting there.

210
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:45,000
We turned real quick, locked him up, set him down, swaying the station.

211
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,000
We informed the officer of what we were doing.

212
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,000
He informed us that he had been observing the same object.

213
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:57,000
He wasn't going to see anything about it since he was by himself.

214
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
He was just watching it.

215
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,000
He got on the radio right away. He called his station.

216
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,000
They in turn lost contact.

217
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,000
Do you remember his name?

218
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:15,000
Frank, I think his name is Penisella.

219
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,000
He radioed them.

220
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:25,000
His vehicle at this time kind of hovered or hesitated.

221
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000
It moved very slow.

222
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:36,000
It monitored our traffic or if it was monitoring our traffic or whatever it was doing.

223
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,000
When they started talking about the possibility of jets being scrambled

224
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000
and possibly intercepted.

225
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,000
What was this talk at?

226
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000
This was in Conway, Pennsylvania on the radio.

227
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,000
On dirt police radio?

228
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,000
Yes, sir.

229
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,000
What happened at that time?

230
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:59,000
We thought that they had scrambled some fighters to try to intercept it.

231
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:06,000
Upon this, the vehicle then started a vertical flight.

232
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:15,000
The ship or whatever it was remained, what would appear to me to be perfectly level.

233
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:21,000
In its position and its altitude level.

234
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:27,000
It didn't like a plane that had to change its angle and climb.

235
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:33,000
This thing appeared to me to be level at this time and the flight was completely vertical.

236
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Its altitude gain was, I couldn't, I wouldn't even venture a guess as to the speed on it at this distance.

237
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Were you looking through your windshield this time or outside of the car?

238
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
No, sir. The four of us were all outside.

239
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000
The four of us were...

240
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,000
If you were to point into the sky at the point at it right now, what angle would you look at now?

241
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,000
It was point at all four of us.

242
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000
Just point where you would imagine it to be.

243
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:05,000
At this time it was just clear of the rooftops.

244
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,000
It was the television antenna there.

245
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,000
I would say it was a tin-flip mass pole.

246
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,000
It was just about where the antenna parts.

247
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,000
Looks around.

248
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,000
You were on 25 degrees.

249
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,000
Yes, sir.

250
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:25,000
At this point, the vehicle at this position would then to the north side of the moon.

251
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,000
The moon was almost due east.

252
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:37,000
There was another bright object in the sky just out from the moon.

253
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
On which side? The right or left?

254
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,000
No, it was on the south side, which would have been the right facing it.

255
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000
I don't know what it was, but it was bright.

256
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,000
It wasn't a very big object, but it was a white object.

257
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Why didn't you say it wasn't a big object?

258
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Were you comparing it to something?

259
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,000
Well, yes.

260
00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:01,000
I'm comparing it to the vehicle or whatever it was that was closer this way to us.

261
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,000
That's the one you had been watching all the time.

262
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,000
Yes, sir.

263
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:10,000
To describe it, if you looked at it, it would have looked like a...

264
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,000
probably the size of a...

265
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,000
a dime if you looked at one and a quarter if you looked at the other one.

266
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000
Something to this effect.

267
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,000
It wouldn't actually be this big, but this is a...

268
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,000
I see what you're talking about.

269
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,000
The comparative sizes.

270
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,000
This vehicle then never changed directions except for straight up.

271
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:43,000
We observed this cruiser, this airline, this passenger plane, a large jet airliner,

272
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000
taking off from Pittsburgh.

273
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:51,000
I just said that only as we came from it, what's this plane going for altitude,

274
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,000
fly directly beneath this object.

275
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Make no change of direction?

276
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Just went right by it?

277
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Went right by it.

278
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,000
It didn't seem as though the plane was flying in a distinct line

279
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,000
or maybe going for a compass heading.

280
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,000
I have not the faintest idea of that.

281
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:17,000
But in its actions, it did not appear to try any pursuit or anything like that?

282
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,000
It didn't act as though it had seen or anything.

283
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,000
The object...

284
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,000
What was closer to you at that time?

285
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,000
Was the plane closer to you or the other?

286
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000
It was.

287
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000
The plane was closer to me.

288
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
It was very large and very distinct.

289
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,000
It was real close to the plane.

290
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000
When I say it flew underneath it or directly underneath it,

291
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,000
I mean that it was below this object.

292
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000
In elevation?

293
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,000
Right, in elevation.

294
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:50,000
You could look over the plane at the object.

295
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,000
Right.

296
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:57,000
From then, the only flight that this thing made seemed to be straight up.

297
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000
I saw no change in directions.

298
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,000
At this time, there was radio traffic on Conway's...

299
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,000
Did it constantly go up or did it stop anytime?

300
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,000
It went up.

301
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,000
It made the first climb.

302
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,000
I couldn't say what its full game was.

303
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,000
It hesitated or paused or stopped, I couldn't say.

304
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,000
It then started its climb again.

305
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,000
At this time, as I said, we were still observing it to four officers.

306
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:34,000
That was myself, Frank from Conway, also Wayne from...

307
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000
East Palestine and Barney Neff.

308
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,000
So we were watching it.

309
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:46,000
They informed us to call a member in Pittsburgh right away that they want some information.

310
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,000
We made this call.

311
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,000
We followed the car and chose where to go.

312
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
We made the call.

313
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,000
I tried to give them a basic idea of what we had followed or seen

314
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000
as best we could describe it.

315
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,000
By this time, the object had already been disappeared?

316
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,000
Yes, sir.

317
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,000
I know that it had disappeared.

318
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,000
We could still see it when we...

319
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
It was moving that slowly?

320
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Yes, sir.

321
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000
We could still see it when we...

322
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000
How many minutes did it take from the time that you actually got out of the car

323
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
and actually started to watch it

324
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,000
to the time you drove away to make your telephone call?

325
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,000
I'd say the four of us together, I would have to check it.

326
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:35,000
I would say we observed this vehicle at this point for better than 20 minutes.

327
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,000
So the time that started the rise to the time that you actually went away from it, how long was that?

328
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,000
I would say about 10 minutes.

329
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000
About 10 minutes?

330
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Yes, sir.

331
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Okay.

332
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,000
About 10 minutes.

333
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,000
Like I said, I...

334
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,000
There was a definite rise.

335
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,000
A definite rise.

336
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,000
It was a definite...

337
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,000
It wasn't just a real, real slow thing, but you could actually make out...

338
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000
You could see the definite rise.

339
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:07,000
The only thing it changed was the light as this vehicle powered itself or done whatever it done.

340
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,000
I don't know.

341
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:16,000
This light was so distinct and was so bright that it could still be seen in broad daylight.

342
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000
It was very bright.

343
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,000
It never looked black against the lightning sky in the east?

344
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,000
No, sir.

345
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:34,000
The halo around it looked to have a definite rim that might be considered to be gray or something to this effect, but the object itself was...

346
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000
It was never silhouette.

347
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
It never became like a dark object against the light sky.

348
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,000
No, sir.

349
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,000
No, sir.

350
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,000
All we could see was the bottom of whatever this craft or whatever you want to call it.

351
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000
Right in this that you'd seen before.

352
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000
Yes, sir.

353
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000
I don't know what happened to it or we thought that...

354
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Didn't anybody stay in that observance?

355
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,000
No, sir.

356
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,000
We were four of us left together.

357
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,000
I didn't...

358
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,000
Nobody?

359
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,000
You didn't leave anybody behind?

360
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,000
No, sir.

361
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,000
We didn't know where to go to make the phone call.

362
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,000
They said they wanted to talk to us and Frank had to show us where to go.

363
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000
Do you know who you talked to?

364
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,000
I have the faintest idea.

365
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,000
I just know that he's supposed to be one of the air officers or...

366
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,000
I don't know if he's with aeronautics.

367
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,000
I know I have the faintest idea.

368
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,000
I know that we went in the police department.

369
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Frank dialed this number that was left for him to call.

370
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:39,000
I know that the last number was in the 400s or 40s or something.

371
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
I explained it to the guy.

372
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,000
He says I'll forward this to Wright Patterson.

373
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,000
At the time we thought there was radar contact.

374
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,000
I'm not sure there must have been from Pittsburgh.

375
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Yes, sir.

376
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,000
I thought there was.

377
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,000
I was misled.

378
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Dale, I think this part right here...

379
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,000
We've had enough of that part right there.

380
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,000
I'm trying to keep you within your time limit here.

381
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,000
Now, what we're going to do now...

382
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,000
Is there anything significant from this point on?

383
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Your sighting was ended, wasn't it?

384
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,000
At that time.

385
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,000
Now, let's go backwards now and go back to the time when you first saw the objects.

386
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,000
Okay?

387
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Okay.

388
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Now, I would describe what you did of the light underneath it.

389
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,000
And what your idea was about that light.

390
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,000
Well, when I...

391
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,000
Are you able to look at it?

392
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,000
No, sir. Not directly.

393
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,000
When it was first observed,

394
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,000
a momentary eye may have been looking directly at it.

395
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,000
It was very pure white or a blue white,

396
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000
very vapor light.

397
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,000
When this thing first started up,

398
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,000
this hum that we could hear in the area,

399
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,000
if it was from this,

400
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:02,000
when it increased as it went up to this 50 or 100 feet or whatever it was,

401
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000
or whatever the actual height was,

402
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,000
the brightness then increased.

403
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,000
And from that point...

404
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000
As the brightness increased, the hum increased?

405
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
No, it didn't increase.

406
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,000
It just changed.

407
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,000
Changed to a higher or lower pitch?

408
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,000
No, it was a higher, I guess you'd call it.

409
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:24,000
There's an increase like...

410
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,000
I've heard it sound similar to it before,

411
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000
but I can't remember what it was.

412
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,000
It's got to sound like...

413
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Was there a vibration?

414
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Like a hum...

415
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000
No, it was not a pulsating thing.

416
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
This was steady.

417
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,000
Definitely a steady thing.

418
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,000
There was no weird noises, no beep, beep, or...

419
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,000
You know, that.

420
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,000
It...

421
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,000
From that point on, until after the vehicle moved away from us,

422
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,000
some, the only thing that you could observe,

423
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,000
that it was very large,

424
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,000
seemed to be carrying a great deal of highway.

425
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000
Well, how about when you put your hands out

426
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000
and showed me an outstretched...

427
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,000
I asked you to actually get the distance between

428
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,000
outstretched hands and ask you how far apart were they...

429
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,000
How far apart would you put your hands again?

430
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000
Would you show me right now?

431
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,000
So cover edge to edge as you watch the object just right over the top of your heart.

432
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,000
This is the worst when it started over before it started upward.

433
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
I would...

434
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,000
It reached between the two, the one taller tree

435
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,000
and the shoulder on the bottom

436
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,000
to hold one hand to look at the tree.

437
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000
The tree on the lower side where this...

438
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000
probably the fair was, and I showed you last night,

439
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,000
and there would have been about like that.

440
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Which...

441
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,000
The officer here is holding his hands apart at least four and a half feet.

442
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Yes, sir.

443
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,000
And now that would be if you...

444
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,000
I would judge it to be between that tree

445
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,000
and to give it any lines if the light was making it look larger.

446
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:10,000
I would say it was probably close to 50 feet between the two trees.

447
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,000
What was the estimated diameter of the object then?

448
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,000
The diameter, I estimated it...

449
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:24,000
I was playing it safe, I say from 35 to 45 or 50 feet

450
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,000
depending on how thick that light is around whatever it is.

451
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,000
Well, let's forget just what you could see.

452
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,000
What about the depth of it?

453
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,000
At this point, you couldn't determine until it started this move

454
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,000
and when it did, the thickness of the vehicle

455
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,000
at my, me estimating the thickness of it,

456
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,000
I would say was at least 18 feet thick.

457
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,000
I don't know how much was in that light or how deep that light was

458
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:01,000
because I don't know what would be dark enough that you could look through.

459
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Well, as long as you're talking about light,

460
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,000
let's forget about you couldn't see anything through the light,

461
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,000
so let's use the light as a compare as your outer edge.

462
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,000
Now, if your outer edge is 40 to 50 feet,

463
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,000
would you still say that the depth from the bottom of the light

464
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,000
to the top of the rounded area was 18 feet that much?

465
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,000
I would say that... No, no, no, because I would say that...

466
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
That's almost halfway.

467
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:31,000
I would say that the top from...

468
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000
When I say 18 to 24 feet,

469
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:41,000
I am figuring that there is as much below midship as there is above it.

470
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Oh, I see. In other words, you talk about 9 to 12 feet above it,

471
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,000
then only on one side.

472
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000
Yes, sir.

473
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,000
Okay, see, that's all you could see, wasn't it?

474
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,000
Yes, sir.

475
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,000
You could only see something that was not only up just at the very top,

476
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,000
over the top part of the air eye.

477
00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:01,000
Now, you also showed by picture here in making the object that there was a sort of a...

478
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:06,000
After the rim or whatever it might have been, there was a sort of an offset,

479
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,000
but it sort of came in like a step.

480
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Yes, sir.

481
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,000
It stepped in, weirded in, it rose again and rounded at the top.

482
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
Right.

483
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,000
Is that what it was?

484
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:20,000
At this point, one of the angles towards us,

485
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,000
the disc wasn't turned too much like this.

486
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,000
This is... You couldn't see a full-top view if it was stepped in.

487
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,000
You couldn't see this part of the vehicle,

488
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:38,000
but you could make out this master fair that was coming out of it.

489
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,000
If you could have looked down at the top, we couldn't see anything,

490
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:49,000
but this profile, the silhouette of the one side is the angle,

491
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,000
because the turning of the ship wasn't radical at all.

492
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:59,000
It was not radical enough to view more than this one partial silhouette,

493
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,000
which I would say was maybe a little less than half on it,

494
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:11,000
because you could make out from this master fair or whatever this projection

495
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,000
or whatever purpose it served, I don't have the faintest idea.

496
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,000
I thought it to be an antennae, and I don't know why.

497
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:26,000
I don't know why. That was the first thing that came to my mind after I had observed it long enough.

498
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,000
Something sticking out to you would probably mean an antennae.

499
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,000
Yes, sir.

500
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,000
So I don't know why it made me see an antennae.

501
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,000
That was the thing that hit my mind.

502
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,000
It was very clear.

503
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:47,000
This one portion of this thing, at least this much of the angle as it tilted, was clear.

504
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
The round part was clear, and it was unlighted. Is that right?

505
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000
It was not illuminated.

506
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:59,000
The only glare on the... I don't know if the vehicle had angled a little more.

507
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:05,000
I don't believe the rest of it to have been lighted, but at the angle that it was,

508
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,000
and the illumination from the side of the rim would have our view obstructed

509
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:20,000
of any further determination would have taken a point on a raise or something where we might have been up higher.

510
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,000
You might not be able to see it better.

511
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Right, or if we'd have been...

512
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Now, this raised area, did you see it silhouetted against the sky?

513
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,000
Yes, sir.

514
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,000
And what would have appeared to be made of? What color was it?

515
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:45,000
It appeared to me to be like an aluminum or an alloy, not of a real polished, it was shiny, but not...

516
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:53,000
When I say... I don't mean like chrome. I don't mean this shiny.

517
00:37:53,000 --> 00:38:03,000
I mean like that of a aluminum that hasn't been polished.

518
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,000
A lot of the chrome a little bit.

519
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Right.

520
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,000
Although it used to be shiny, but it's not so shiny now.

521
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:14,000
It used to be, but it didn't appear to be bright like a silver dollar.

522
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,000
And there was no detail, no holes, no portholes, no...

523
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:25,000
No openings visible to either myself or to the other officers that anyone could make out.

524
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,000
There was no burrways or anything.

525
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,000
Let me ask you this question here. You talked about when the object came over you,

526
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,000
it was at an attitude that was practically level with the ground, in other words horizontal.

527
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,000
Yes.

528
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,000
Then as it moved over to the north, it slanted, didn't it?

529
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,000
Yes.

530
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,000
It slanted sort of like a shovel would downward a little bit.

531
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,000
Right?

532
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,000
Now, in which... what part was headed in a direction it was moving?

533
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Was it the rounded part or was it the shiny area?

534
00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:01,000
The rounded part, the light... every time it changed directions, whenever it angled,

535
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,000
the light would be...

536
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,000
Following or would it be ahead?

537
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,000
It would be following. It was projected from behind.

538
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,000
When you were following, if at an angle, when you looked at the back end,

539
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:19,000
the only thing that you could make was this circular...

540
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,000
it wasn't a perfect circle, but it was a circle...

541
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,000
the light may have distorted it some, I could not say.

542
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,000
But it was all bright?

543
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,000
All very bright.

544
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,000
As you followed it even?

545
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,000
Right, as I followed it.

546
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,000
Did you ever...

547
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,000
In other words, you never... as you followed the object and it was out ahead of you,

548
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,000
you never actually saw this rounded area?

549
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,000
The part that wasn't illuminated?

550
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,000
No, so the only time we could see this thing,

551
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:51,000
any part of the metallic thing was when it would make a maneuver,

552
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,000
when it would change its trim,

553
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,000
and one of it moved either a little to the south or a little to the north.

554
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:07,000
If it wanted to move south, the top part of this craft or whatever would...

555
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,000
tilt facing the direction it was going with the light

556
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000
in the opposite direction projecting front all the way.

557
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,000
Right.

558
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,000
It never changed colors.

559
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,000
The only thing that did get brighter or it seemed as if...

560
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,000
when I would call or it did state, I couldn't prove it that...

561
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,000
like it accelerated for height or...

562
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,000
for a contorted purpose of navigation or whatever it was doing.

563
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:44,000
At this time, it did gain more intense in the light.

564
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,000
You never saw any smoke or any trail laying like that?

565
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000
There was no vapor trails coming at all.

566
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,000
There was ice on those...

567
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,000
You could never tell it was revolving or anything like that?

568
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,000
No, sir.

569
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,000
If there was anything spinning, it was under the light that couldn't be seen.

570
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,000
Would you say that the part of the object which was low,

571
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,000
described as... you talked about the bright part, this brilliant area.

572
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Was it fuzzy or blurred or was it sharpening out line?

573
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,000
No, it was...

574
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,000
While the outer rim, there was a...

575
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:20,000
probably to me at this time, it did look as though it was a halo effect on the outer rim.

576
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,000
The light beneath it was very sharp, very...

577
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,000
it was not fuzzy.

578
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,000
It was moving from me.

579
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:34,000
It was like a concentrated, very well controlled even flow of light.

580
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,000
What shape was that light behind it?

581
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,000
The light didn't come down into a full cone.

582
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,000
It came down at...

583
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,000
I wouldn't estimate the exact length of it.

584
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000
Well, compared to the craft?

585
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Compared to the craft, I would say that the light probably extended or appeared to me at this distance.

586
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:07,000
The light actually curtailed itself in midair at about 150 feet or so, like...

587
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:16,000
Now, this brightness, for instance, when this light was shining clearly, you could see through this light.

588
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000
It would have taken...

589
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:31,000
In other words, just other than the outer rim of the light itself, you would have had to have smoke or some kind of dust particles or something flowing through it.

590
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:38,000
But maybe you could have determined a particular shape or a beam from it.

591
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:49,000
Otherwise, a little in the immediate go from beneath it is so it's set on this light in some way.

592
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,000
In other words, what you're saying is even though it illuminated the ground when it was low,

593
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,000
you could not see the light come from the object down to the ground because it was right through it.

594
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,000
And yet it was illuminated the ground.

595
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,000
And then you couldn't see any beam or anything like that.

596
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:09,000
It was coming from the object when you couldn't tell where it started and where it finished.

597
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,000
Mostly because you couldn't look up at the object. The area was just illuminated.

598
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,000
Was illuminated widely?

599
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,000
The radius of the cars, I couldn't...

600
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Right at this point, I wouldn't want to even estimate the radius. I was scared to death.

601
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,000
I mean, I'm putting on bones about telling it.

602
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:38,000
At first, I didn't even know if I could go or not. I was real scared.

603
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,000
Did you feel any heat?

604
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:50,000
Not only heat, I did feel heat. I more or less felt that this was my adrenaline coming up, this feel of fear.

605
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,000
But you didn't actually think you felt the heat from the object?

606
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,000
I don't know. My heart was around the pound of my badge off.

607
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:06,000
I know that I have this real, real feeling I could get.

608
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,000
Did you know what the metal was feeling like?

609
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,000
He was very pale. That's about the only thing I am sure...

610
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,000
Did he talk?

611
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:22,000
No. I don't think... For the first two minutes, I don't think I had a phone to stop.

612
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Did you stay two minutes before you went in the car?

613
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:34,000
I don't really know. It was like being hypnotized. I knew I kept feeling that I wanted something between me and it.

614
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:40,000
I didn't know if I moved, if it would do anything to me or it wouldn't.

615
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:50,000
When I made the decision, telling him I was getting in the car, I don't suppose it was any good

616
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,000
if this thing was going to do us in or something.

617
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,000
Let me ask you a question. You talked about this business of this light.

618
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,000
You had the impression, and you talked to me last night for some hours,

619
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,000
and you had the impression that this thing was sitting on its own light.

620
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,000
What do you mean by sitting on its own light?

621
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:15,000
Well, to me, it appeared... If I was to describe it, it would be like taking a real...

622
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,000
You were talking about proportion?

623
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,000
It's like to me that I don't know how it does it or what it does.

624
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,000
It's like if you turn the real good fly slide upside down, you turn it on,

625
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,000
and you stood right upon the beam and walked off, and it was the light standing by itself.

626
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:37,000
In other words, it would be defined gravity because of the light. That's what you're feeling was.

627
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Would it become noisier at this high pitch or not?

628
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,000
More noise or less?

629
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:53,000
The only humming... The only time I heard a change of humming, after we once were in the car and running,

630
00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:01,000
the sound of it was completely obliterated. I could pick up nothing from it.

631
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,000
And you had no trouble with the radio or the lights or your motor?

632
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,000
No malfunctions with my car at all.

633
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:18,000
My radio seemed to be working very well. I don't remember any other malfunctions.

634
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:27,000
The car ran real well. It performed good. It handled well. It didn't miss or the lights didn't warm enough.

635
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,000
I had no malfunctions at all.

636
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:37,000
You had no signals of any kind interfering with your radio? Not even a coded signal, nothing like that?

637
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:43,000
Just I couldn't say. There was one hell of a lot of traffic on that radio for a little bit.

638
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,000
Everybody was wondering. I was trying to describe the object after it started increasing its speed,

639
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:57,000
feeling that if someone monitoring, our stations monitoring, that I could describe it,

640
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:02,000
that if I wrapped a car up or something, someone would know what this thing looked like.

641
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,000
There was no interference with my car.

642
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:12,000
Let me ask you one question. When it was out there ahead of you all the time, you had your eyes on it quite a bit, didn't you?

643
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,000
I did.

644
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,000
Did it bother your eyes?

645
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Other than...

646
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Was it too bright?

647
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,000
To drive and watch it?

648
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,000
No. After it got away from us, it got some distance. It was bright.

649
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,000
Didn't you say it was not much more than 300 feet away ahead of you?

650
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,000
Yeah.

651
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,000
That's all that was?

652
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,000
The altitude.

653
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,000
What about the distance out ahead?

654
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,000
About the length of a football field, so about 100 yards.

655
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,000
It's only about 300 feet away?

656
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,000
Yeah.

657
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,000
And you mean it hurt your eyes?

658
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:50,000
At this time, after it gained its altitude, it was bright, but it didn't hurt you.

659
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:59,000
It didn't seem to... I don't think I noticed anything from it.

660
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:05,000
At first, after we started this pursuit, it was like being hypnotized from it or something.

661
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:11,000
I mean, you got this compulsion. I don't know how to describe it.

662
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000
You've seen something and you want to see more.

663
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000
I don't know.

664
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,000
At this time, when you felt compelled to go with it, as you were talking about, you wanted to go after it.

665
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,000
Now, did you feel fear at that time?

666
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,000
No, I was just determined to...

667
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,000
Were you both working pretty cool from that point on?

668
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:42,000
Yes, very much so. I had made the statement to Bonnie and that we had to try to identify it or to clear it up.

669
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:55,000
At this point, I knew that there was something there and I wanted to see it when it maintained its course as it was.

670
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,000
And it was getting lighter. Every minute it was getting lighter.

671
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,000
And I didn't know what was going to happen at daylight.

672
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,000
I didn't know if it was suddenly going to disappear at daylight.

673
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:15,000
I didn't know if I could see it at daylight, but I knew that if there was wings or something tolling this light, I would see another vehicle.

674
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:23,000
I would see a helicopter or I would see something that I could still define it.

675
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,000
Still with this kind of hope that it was something ordinary.

676
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,000
Right. This is it. I approached it.

677
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,000
I figured, well, I've just proved the theory that this is a saucer.

678
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:40,000
If it's a glob of this slum gas or something, I'll see it.

679
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:50,000
You know, when things happened the way they did, when I was talking to other cars along the way that couldn't get to me...

680
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,000
You mean to tell me none of the cars had cameras?

681
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:58,000
Yes, the other cars that had cameras were all on different routes trying to work to us.

682
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:03,000
And they were missing their connections and such that they couldn't catch up to us.

683
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,000
So the cars with the cameras were...

684
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:17,000
Isn't that funny? Isn't it an amazing coincidence that I hear you've got something for 85 minutes and nobody's got a camera to take a shot at it?

685
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,000
None of the cars with the cameras could seem to...

686
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:26,000
It can feel or come in ourumbiana or Mahoning County or none of them could...

687
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Let me ask you a question. Did you get to see the photograph that's upstairs in the safe?

688
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,000
I have one.

689
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,000
You have one? Do I get to see that thing?

690
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,000
Yes, sir.

691
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:42,000
Let me ask you a question. Does it appear to... Did you look it under a magnifying glass?

692
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,000
No, I haven't, sir.

693
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:48,000
That's what you should do. Did it have any appearance at all similar to what you thought you saw?

694
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,000
It did, sir.

695
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,000
It did?

696
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,000
Yes, sir.

697
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,000
Do you feel that it was about the same time? Was it around the same time that it's on?

698
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,000
But where was he seen it from? A man to his north?

699
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,000
He was seen it from 20 miles away when he photographed it.

700
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,000
From 20 miles?

701
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,000
And he actually got something on there.

702
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,000
He definitely has an on. Good morning, grab the short tape.

703
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,000
Man, that must have been a pretty hot kick.

704
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,000
I told you it was real big.

705
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,000
Let's ask another question here. Who talked to you?

706
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,000
When?

707
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:23,000
Since this thing... Who's charged you out, I mean, with all the questions and everything else?

708
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,000
I've talked to Los Angeles, California, Washington, D.C., New York.

709
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,000
Who are these people that you talked to?

710
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,000
Different news media, people from NICAP.

711
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,000
NICAP?

712
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:47,000
I talked to Mr. Fowler of NICAP and Boston on a one-hour radio program through Yankee System of RKO, RKO Yankee Studios.

713
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:55,000
I did about a 30 or 45-minute overseas broadcast for Voice of America.

714
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,000
Did they get ready?

715
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:08,000
This is all today. I've been interviewed by them, by WKNTV or something out of Youngstown TV,

716
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:15,000
which came here today and set up in the courtroom, by the New York Papers, by the Chicago Papers.

717
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,000
They're not going to be covered.

718
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,000
What about you?

719
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,000
They're from Los Angeles, from Wright Patterson Field in Columbus.

720
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,000
They talked to you on the phone?

721
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,000
Yes, sir, they did.

722
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,000
And they're not going to make a triple here?

723
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:30,000
No, they didn't say that. They want to work on it.

724
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:41,000
I don't know what they decide. They would like to analyze the tape, I suppose.

725
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:46,000
I've also spent several hours again today with Mr. Wetzel.

726
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,000
He's from the Pittsburgh NICAP organization.

727
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,000
He's a teacher at the University of Pittsburgh.

728
00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:06,000
Yes, he told me. I spent time with him, also with the Akron Bacon Journal reporter who came up.

729
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,000
Was it a fair child?

730
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,000
Yes, sir. This is a fair child.

731
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,000
Did Mr. Warner come with you?

732
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:17,000
I don't know. There was an awful lot of people here. I don't know where they were all from. They were from all over.

733
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,000
Do you know who you talked to at the airport? Do you know the name? Did you talk to Higel?

734
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,000
No, he was a major. It was all I can tell you.

735
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,000
What's that?

736
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,000
He was a major from Columbus.

737
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,000
Major?

738
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,000
Yes, sir.

739
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,000
You know, I don't know.

740
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,000
Columbus or Lincoln?

741
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:44,000
No, he was, I'm pretty sure he was from Columbus. The sheriff answered the phone very early this morning when I talked to him.

742
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Okay, well, let's see here. Have you ever seen anything like this before?

743
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,000
No, sir.

744
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,000
Have you ever reported seeing a U.S. airport?

745
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,000
No, sir.

746
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:59,000
I've never seen or encountered one. I've never even...

747
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:05,000
I wonder if there's anything missing. Now, let me ask you here. This is a couple of questions that have nothing to do with the sighting.

748
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,000
It has something to do with your mental attitude.

749
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,000
Okay.

750
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,000
Now, last night we were talking. Remember when we were waiting for Mr. Weitzel to make that long telephone call?

751
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,000
Yes, sir.

752
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:23,000
And we were talking. What I told you, what would you think if somebody told you that these were objects of the United States of America?

753
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,000
What was your first reaction when I told you that?

754
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:40,000
There were objects belonging to us that I feel that somebody ought to tell us about, or tell me, I don't think they got any right to go around scaring a hell out of me with something I don't know what it is.

755
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:52,000
I think that if it is ours, people got a right to know. I mean, even if they just basically say that these objects are ours, they're harmless, we're experimenting with them.

756
00:54:52,000 --> 00:55:01,000
They're part of the space program or they're going to be weather vehicles or they're going to be used for observation at high altitudes or something.

757
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:11,000
If this is the case, then they do belong to us. I think that we ought to be told. I think that it's pretty ridiculous everybody running around.

758
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:17,000
I don't appreciate risk in my life trying to identify something.

759
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,000
In other words, you feel that they're going to test them. They shouldn't test them where they did.

760
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:28,000
That's right. They just tell me, I don't want to go running up and down the road 100 miles an hour.

761
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:36,000
Like I said, if they're belonging to us, just tell me they're belonging to us and I'll accept it. If it doesn't, then why the hell won't they help me find out what it is?

762
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:43,000
I don't mean it that way. I figure they're smarter than I am, I hope, if they're not one-trust.

763
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:49,000
You feel, though, that if they are not, if they are a United States product, they should tell us about it, number one.

764
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,000
If they are sure that they are not, should they tell us anyway?

765
00:55:53,000 --> 00:56:08,000
I believe they should because of the fact that to get some kind of a program or an agency that backed these other civilian programs or something to try to definitely get an identification on it.

766
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:17,000
If it's a foreign ship, if it's a manufacturing in another country, or if it's even from outer space, as far as I go,

767
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,000
my object is everybody says it's impossible. I don't know why the hell would be impossible.

768
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,000
We're going to shoot two men in the space just the next couple of days.

769
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:33,000
Russia shot a couple of wads out, they hit the moon. Who's to say they can't hear that?

770
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:41,000
I mean, if they want to, I know that the things here I definitely am going to read on it.

771
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:52,000
I'm going to study it or not study it. I want to know a little more about it. I would like to know and just do them.

772
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:59,000
That's good. I wanted to see what you did there as far as the book, as making a facsimile of what you actually saw there.

773
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:05,000
I don't know. I think that I've asked almost every question that I possibly could ask, and I'm thinking, did I miss anything?

774
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:10,000
That's what I'm bothered with. Did I miss anything? There was no sonic boom. There was nothing like that.

775
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,000
There were no flashes of light. No flashes, no thrust noises.

776
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:22,000
When the object passed over the trees, did you notice that the trees were moving or not?

777
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,000
No, I didn't.

778
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,000
Was there any wind that night?

779
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,000
No, there was. I believe there was a report that I think we had three miles an hour.

780
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,000
But did you see actually, as the object moved over the tree, did you actually see it blasted into the tree?

781
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:39,000
When that started coming over the top of that tree, for that minute, when it started getting bright, I...

782
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Now, number two, has it moved, or been it moved over an area of the other two trees on the other side?

783
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,000
Yes, sir.

784
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,000
And did you see any shaking in the land there?

785
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:54,000
I just noted it was only that area. You couldn't possibly look past this vehicle to have seen it.

786
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,000
It would have been too bright.

787
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:02,000
It was too bright, and I wasn't paying any attention to trees either.

788
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:07,000
At that point, it would be very hard to describe if anything were to be said.

789
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:13,000
Now, we've got also... Your observation was made outside of the car with a naked eye, and you've got good vision, right?

790
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,000
Twenty-twenty vision.

791
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,000
And you also saw through the windshield, all the way through the big chase.

792
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,000
Right.

793
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:20,000
And then sometimes...

794
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,000
Well, sideways, you could see it through the open window?

795
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,000
Yes, sir.

796
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,000
I see.

797
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:29,000
There was not always right in front of me.

798
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:34,000
And now, the other point is that I want to make again. You made your point before.

799
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:39,000
On a straight, when the object shifted position from your left to your right?

800
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,000
Yes, sir.

801
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,000
Was the road straight or curved?

802
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:57,000
It was straight. It was a distinct maneuver. The vehicle itself, we didn't change directions at the time that this... whatever it is...

803
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Maneuvered.

804
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,000
Right. It definitely had control.

805
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:12,000
Now, number two, I want your own idea, your own inner thinking about what the heck this thing was doing. It was doing anything.

806
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,000
My own idea of what it was doing here.

807
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,000
The reason I brought this up is because you expressed yourself last night.

808
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:28,000
I felt that this thing wanted to observe me as bad as I wanted to observe it. It was like it was watching me while I watched it, so to speak.

809
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:34,000
Well, let me ask you a question. Why didn't you slow down to about 70 miles an hour and see what it would do?

810
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,000
I don't know. It's like I said.

811
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,000
And maybe it would have slowed down.

812
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,000
This is possibly true.

813
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,000
And yet you were doing 103 miles an hour or 100 miles an hour across the country side.

814
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,000
Yes.

815
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,000
And you didn't slow down at all.

816
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:53,000
No, I just was compelled to... I don't know. I just felt that I had to drive this fast to stay with it.

817
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:58,000
I know that it waited for me.

818
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:04,000
I'm positive of that. I know that that was an hallucination. There was another car behind me.

819
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,000
And he witnessed the same thing.

820
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:11,000
What about these other cars now that were trying to catch up so that they could use their cameras?

821
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,000
Were they able to see the objects?

822
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:19,000
They were never... they were all so far behind and tangled in the direction...

823
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,000
Did you ever see the object itself?

824
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,000
None of them have stated to me. I haven't talked to any of them.

825
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:31,000
I never had an opportunity from Ben and Tonal and it's been a never-ending thing since this started.

826
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,000
I haven't had a chance to...

827
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:38,000
Besides that man right there, Gerald Bookert, the Chief Police Officer at Mantua,

828
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:41,000
was there any other observations made around you that you know about?

829
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,000
I'm talking about at the time when yours was made at five o'clock.

830
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:53,000
There was one fellow in our organization that stated he was on his way back from the Emporium in Akron

831
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:58,000
that he's seen it, this one bright object to him from his distance,

832
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:04,000
which is undetermined, was about the size of a basketball from where he was at.

833
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:09,000
And the distance at this time was undetermined at how far it was away from him,

834
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:13,000
the same as it was from Jerry and Manaway.

835
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,000
See, what we need is, we need guys on the opposite side, don't we?

836
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,000
Yes, sir.

837
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,000
So that we can get some kind of a triangulation.

838
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,000
We get back to find out exactly how far away his camera shot was.

839
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:31,000
This lady seen it at the time she called was almost the same time that Jerry was photographing it.

840
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:39,000
Now, who the lady was that called in? If some of the county knows, this I don't know because I haven't talked to...

841
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:40,000
You sure some of the county?

842
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,000
Yes, sir.

843
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,000
They should know.

844
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:47,000
They talked to Bob on the radio, they told him that this lady hadn't made a sighting.

845
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,000
We made a checklist, and we don't know what it is.

846
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,000
Well, if some of the county doesn't know, I wouldn't have the famous idea.

847
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,000
I know that...

848
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000
We also made a checklist of Medina County.

849
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,000
There was supposed to be a photograph taken over there, Medina.

850
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,000
Oh, I didn't know.

851
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,000
And we couldn't find out either.

852
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,000
I hadn't heard that.

853
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:10,000
I just know that this lady called in, as some of the county relayed the message to our dispatcher, Bob Wilson.

854
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:16,000
From that, I don't know what source the call came from or the lady that reported it.

855
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,000
I just know that he gave the traffic to our county.

856
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:25,000
It was too low for an aircraft or a star, too large and too high for a streetlight.

857
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,000
There was no radar account.

858
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,000
No radar report.

859
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:28,000
Not to my knowledge.

860
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,000
No where along the line.

861
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,000
The only one that we thought was observing it...

862
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,000
Could have been.

863
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,000
Could have been.

864
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,000
Or could have been.

865
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,000
They denied it now.

866
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:48,000
So if contact was made, they wrapped it up in our keeping it there for purposes unknown to me at this time.

867
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,000
I don't know anything about that at all.

868
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:58,000
Now that you're so well publicized, Mr. Spar, are you willing to allow us to use your name for felicity purposes like this?

869
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,000
Talk about it or me.

870
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,000
I don't mind.

871
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,000
I don't want my address publicized.

872
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,000
I won't because I don't know it.

873
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:11,000
I don't want my home to be started because of it.

874
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:18,000
That's why I want to get as much of this that will help people in their capacity.

875
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:31,000
If this is a thing that you're working on to definitely identify and this is a help to these people, I don't mind at all.

876
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:39,000
For someone that's curious wanting you to repeat a story a million times, there's no basic reason.

877
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,000
This is very time.

878
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,000
You tired even now?

879
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:44,000
I definitely am.

880
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,000
I've been here since 8 o'clock this morning.

881
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:59,000
I thought that possibly if I just stick it out and can give everyone the information that they want, that possibly if it will help.

882
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:06,000
I'm grateful for the privilege of even being able to possibly either prove or disprove it.

883
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:11,000
To my own benefit, I would love to know.

884
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,000
I wish now that I had read of them.

885
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:14,000
I wish I knew them.

886
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,000
You don't have to.

887
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,000
You know a lot of us read and read and read and never see.

888
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:22,000
But here you are and you say you haven't read much, but here you've got to see some.

889
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,000
Now, one point.

890
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,000
I just wanted to fill in here.

891
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,000
I was here when I've been here since 6 o'clock myself in the area.

892
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:32,000
See, I went down there and I read a reader all over that field and I found absolutely nothing.

893
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,000
It was out there for about an hour.

894
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:37,000
I got to fit up walking around that down area for about an hour and I could find no evidence at all.

895
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,000
I thought I'd add that to the tape.

896
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:46,000
And I thank you very, very much, Deputy Sheriff Dale as far for your tremendous cooperation.

897
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,000
And I'll have to say it in every sense of the word.

898
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:53,000
And I thank you for the fine sauce investigator committee signing off.

899
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,000
Mark can do so.

900
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,000
We kind of sure that if I can ever help you guys.

901
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,000
Thanks very, very much.